Christians and Patriots by missmel58 on Blogster

The conservative right, the Christian-right, in our nation would very much like to see our democracy develop into a theocracy. They would like to see our laws based on their religious beliefs. I refuse to call what they believe spiritual. George Bush is part of that group.

What makes me believe I can make such a statement? What do I know of such matters? Well, having studied religion at Harvard Divinity and history at The College of William and Mary I believe I have some insight into matters historical, political and religious. I finished Magna-Cum-Laude – not with the C average of the president.

While the United States is not a theocracy – it is on a slippery slope. I do not believe that those men who pull GWB’s puppet strings are particularly religious sorts (money is their god) I do believe that they are pandering to a very dangerous group of individuals in our nation. Faith-based initiatives are dangerous. I don’t believe that I must go to Iran to see theocratic policies in action when the president and congress are saying “the BIBLE says a marriage is between a man and a woman.”

The bible does not make our laws. When our laws are made based on what is written in a religious text we are taking the first steps down a road that the founders of our nation would find appalling, that I find appalling – the 50-odd-million Americans found appalling in the last election.

My degree in English (actually all three of them) makes me question what are the fundamental differences between the terms Moral, Ethical and Value. The nuance of English is both the strength of the new conservative – and his downfall. These words have vastly different denotations and connotations, their etymologies and uses are variant.

I don’t pretend to know the conservative mind. I don’t pretend to know the liberal mind. I know that I know my mind. And I know that individual opinion is one of the most treasured values of American society – having an opinion about anything does not make me the enemy – it makes me a patriot.

George Bush does not govern from a pulpit – George Bush has no desire to GOVERN. He wants to RULE. Two different words.

14 comments on Christians and Patriots

ganesh said 1 years ago
it's a pretty easy sell for the marketers. people are willing to pay more for bottled water than for juice because it's fashionable these days. i think a lot of this religious mumbo jumbo bush hides behind is all a bunch of misdirection to hide the monetary agenda he and his PNAC buddies share.
centurion said 1 years ago
Because you find it so important to share, I mention my own resume before commenting. I took my masters in ethics and my doctorate in philosophy from Princeton. I am a hard right neocon, although I disagree with my political philosophic brethren and believe that homosexuals should have the same rights to marriage as do heterosexuals. But on your main points: equating George Bush with Iranian theocracy is, at best, just plain silly and, at worst, ludicrous. Our laws are by and large rooted in Judeo-Christian values. George Bush didn't do that, our founders did. Cultural and legal strictures against homosexual marriage have existed since our founding. Again, not a Bush creation. To say that faith based initiatives are dangerous seems paranoid. Historically, they have done enormous good for millions. While I disagree with Bush on many policies, I appreciate his religious integrity. Men of faith have always been among our greatest of leaders. Why does that frighten you so?
missmel58 said 1 years ago
Faith based initiatives go against all of the tenets on which our nation is based. It is not paranoid...separation of church and state precludes faith based government. I certainly believe that people working for/through their community based on their spiritual beliefs is a positive -- we should not legislate based on that.

I am in no way frightened by men of faith -- and hold a deep respect for leaders with spiritual integrity...I don't see Geogre Bush as having that particular quality. Spiritual integrity requires honesty -- and he is a liar. It requires compassion -- the people of New Orleans will tell you he has none...I could go on, but you get my point...Princeton, unlike Yale, doesn't turn out many slouches....
jondude said 1 years ago
Some words that never will go together:
Iraq and democracy
Islam and Israel
Religion and Government by the People
[WINK]
missmel58 said 1 years ago
Amen
hayduke said 1 years ago
I like your writing, and your politics agree with me. I putting you on my buddy list. Maybe you'd like to read my blog article called Stupid Republicans. You make mention of "The Conservative Mind" in this article. Do you really think there is one? Maybe "Conservative Brain Stem" would be more like it. No frontal lobes.
missmel58 said 1 years ago
I don't think all conservatves are mindless...not ALL of them... I think many citizens are apathetic and that leaves the fringes in the center...I think there are moderate conservatives...am I being too idealistic?
hayduke said 1 years ago
I agree with you. In my weaker moments, I'll admit to having Conservative friends who are reasonably intelligent. I'll even admit to having a few conservative tendencies myself, but usually only after raising a pint or two.

In actually, I believe both sides have their strengths and their weaknesses. I believe there are good and rational people on both sides. The only time I really have a problem is the when either side becomes extreme.
bigbob47 said 1 years ago
I will match IQ's and intellect at any level with you whenever you feel the need. Intellect does not claim a political party or particular ideology. Anyone who puts their stock completely in one pot is a few patatoes short of a complete meal.............
greatmartin said 1 years ago
It is that apathetic group we have to wake up--that attitude that 'my vote doesn't make a difference' thinking that appears to be in the majority right now.
Our voter turn out is shameful and, lately, so are our election proceedures![MAD][THUMBDOWN]
bigbob47 said 1 years ago
What you fail to understand, or just do not wish to admidt, is the laws of this country were built "around" religion, and our government was founded "on religious principle." Read the Declaration of Independence, or Ben Franklins speech to the Contenental Congress when things were at a stalemate prior to the signing of our constitution. Read the quotes of Thomas Paines, Abraham Lincoln, Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry or Andrew Jackson. Even Thomas Jefferson, the man who wrote the infamous Danbury letter which spoke of a wall of seperation between Church and State (which, by the way, does not appear in our Constitution). Our nation was founded based on "Faith Based" initiatives and whether you, or mel or the ACLU wishwes to acknowledge it our forefathers spoke it, and documented it. However you wish to circumvent it is up to you.
bigbob47 said 1 years ago
Your statement "I don't believe ALL conservatives are mindless" speaks volumes for your true character. For someone, anyone, to believe that being cautious, or to maintain existing views, or to adhere to traditional methods or views as being the root cause for all the troubles we are facing in this country is arogant to say the least. 50 million people did not vote for John Kerry with all the same reasoning and ideology. I loathe the secular progressive movement in this country for believing they have all the answers. When the founding fathers penned the framework for this nation do you really believe their intention were to alienate religion from all matters pertaining to their convictions and beliefs in the system of laws and government? God was brought into the court system, the school systems and the houses of government. How many innaguartion speeches do you think have been made that did not mention God in one form or another? I do believe that thereneeds to be a seperation of Church and state, however there is an element in our society that wishes to eliminate God from all aspects of life. Speaking of John Kerry, do you remember what Johnny boy did during his failed 2004 Presidential campaign in a highly publicized manner to insure he got the evangelical voters to think of him? He made sure he went to Church and received Holy Communion in a much publicized way, and then he attended black church services and sang and clapped his hands to the music for the cameras......So even the all powerful icon of the secular progressive movement couldn't resist a visit with the Almighty to try and get him over that hump. I read your post often because you are an intelligent person and I gain from them. I am Conservative---and a traditionalist---but I also listen to liberal ideals (unless they are extreme). I feel I am a moderate and am not satisfied with either party or our current system of government. Until the people of this nation wake up and force positive change in Washington our elected officials will be no more than bad actors in nice suits regardless of which political symbol happens to be stamped on their ticket........[SAD]
greatmartin said 1 years ago
"God was brought into the court system, the school systems and the houses of government. How many innaguartion speeches do you think have been made that did not mention God in one form or another?" And how many use God as a political tool? And how many none believers have sworn on the bible? And how many wrongs make a right? Because something has been, or is always, done doesn't make it right or that it shouldn't be changed.
hayduke said 1 years ago
One huge problem that I see with extreme conservatism, and extreme anything, for that matter (Liberalism, Religion, or whatever) is that the extremism tends to narrow the scope of vision. It becomes a very near-sighted world when the concepts of right and wrong are dictated by opinions formed by very selective and exclusionary sources.
Extremism of any type is, to my way of thinking, fanatical. When any line of thinking becomes all-consuming to an individual, it tends to lead to a very black-and-white view of the world, which is not reality.
The first sign of a fanatic is, in my opinion, somebody who puts himself or herself above everybody else, stictly on the basis of his or her own self-judgement.
The second sign of a fanatic is an individual who has lost the ability to laugh at himself or herself.